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Post by Victus on Mar 15, 2009 8:45:55 GMT -8
93, Here is an article by the Times Online about the growing political force of atheists - those who do not subscribe to a particular belief (in most cases, this means Judaism, Christianity, or Islam) There's a new power in America: AtheismThese atheists are certainly the perfect group for an alliance with the Army of Ra-Hoor-Khuit in fighting the socio-political tyranny that religion has brought (largely Christianity in America, especially its virulent evangelical strain) -V. |
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Post by yehezkel on Mar 16, 2009 2:14:32 GMT -8
Virulent... lol... Yes, that's probably a good characterization. The idea is proselytize, proselytize, proselytize - to the extent that once you are "IN," the church just kind of ignores you and tells you to proselytize as well. Proselytization IS the spiritual path for them. I know.. I just to be one... lol...
I'm not sure how to present Thelema to atheists. If I present it as a psycho-spiritual philosophy of individuation (heavy on the psychology/light on the spiritual), I make the most headway. But darn it if there isn't all that Enochian, and "sex magick" alluded to all the time in the life of dear uncle Al.
I'm interested in how others frame Thelema to athiests who are "anti-magick." Or do you think you have to be at least a bit Eastern in your thought before you can approach Thelema?
Thoughts?
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Post by Victus on Mar 16, 2009 9:26:18 GMT -8
Virulent... lol... Yes, that's probably a good characterization. The idea is proselytize, proselytize, proselytize - to the extent that once you are "IN," the church just kind of ignores you and tells you to proselytize as well. Proselytization IS the spiritual path for them. I know.. I just to be one... lol... I'm not sure how to present Thelema to atheists. If I present it as a psycho-spiritual philosophy of individuation (heavy on the psychology/light on the spiritual), I make the most headway. But darn it if there isn't all that Enochian, and "sex magick" alluded to all the time in the life of dear uncle Al. I'm interested in how others frame Thelema to athiests who are "anti-magick." Or do you think you have to be at least a bit Eastern in your thought before you can approach Thelema? Thoughts? 93, The best way to present THelema to Atheists is as a philosophy of Pragmatism, Individual Liberty, Personal exploration, and Joy... because that is what it is. The Manifesto of R.H.K. was intended to show the beauty of Thelema to non-Thelemites (while using the Thelemic symbolism of Horus) -V. |
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Post by ceewayne on Mar 21, 2009 23:58:35 GMT -8
Myself, I have a problem 'soft selling' Thelema. Sure atheists might be antimagick, anti anything to do with religion. That is their choice.
Everything you say about Thelema is true, but to me, it also includes the Gods and other beings.
Point out to the atheists that Thelema has never taken away their rights.
Point out that their blanket commendation makes them no better that the followers of Church-i-anity.
And yes, my coworkers and friends know I worship the Scarlet Woman and the Beast She rides on. When they shove my religion in my face, I shove back. They tend not to do that too much after one or two rounds.
93
Chris
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Post by Victus on Mar 22, 2009 7:34:13 GMT -8
Myself, I have a problem 'soft selling' Thelema. Sure atheists might be antimagick, anti anything to do with religion. That is their choice. Everything you say about Thelema is true, but to me, it also includes the Gods and other beings. Point out to the atheists that Thelema has never taken away their rights. Point out that their blanket commendation makes them no better that the followers of Church-i-anity. And yes, my coworkers and friends know I worship the Scarlet Woman and the Beast She rides on. When they shove my religion in my face, I shove back. They tend not to do that too much after one or two rounds. 93 Chris 93, Indeed. Its fine if you want to wroship the Scarlet Woman and the Beast She rides on but thats not everyone's deal. Some people worship Horus, some people worship Aiwass, hell some people dont even do that whole worshipping thing and just Do their Wills and go their Ways with joy. I think the idea of Doign what is right for you, acting out of your deepest truest nature, not being restricted by oppressive ideas (internal) or people/organizations (external), and rejoicing in existence is something anyone can agree with. Thelemite, atheist, or no. BTW there is an interesting article on 'Thelemic Atheism' in the newest issue of the Journal of Thelemic Studies-V. |
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Post by yehezkel on Mar 23, 2009 3:29:21 GMT -8
I think perhaps some people view Thelema as such an incredible attempt at.... almost a Grand Unified Theory of Everything,.... that they'd like to force people to consider ALL of Thelema at once, "for their own good." But the problem is that this perspective begins to be a little bit "Catholic" in its approach if that's the case - in the sense that anyone approaching Thelema would be required to pay complete intellectual obedience to a "school of thought," before they could not participate meaningfully in it at all.
Instead, I think the beauty of Thelema is precisely that it does cover so many aspects of Life and potential experience that it can serve to unify otherwise very different personal temperaments and schools of thought without binding all people to buy into some specific set of concepts that others may simply never be able to accept due to the inherent nature of their temperament and Work. I like the idea that people are liberated even within Thelema to participate in as much or as little of Thelema is in line with their True Will.
As a practical example, just because for some people the theory and practice of the higher OTO degrees seems very real and very important doesn't mean that it is everyone's True Will to participate in such forms of magick. Instead, it could even specificially contradict the True Will of some to participate in them. That too, is fine. It's my thought that Thelema should allow itself to be personalized to a certain degree by the "living art" which is the spiritual life and will of a particular Thelemite. I think our question should not be, how can we get so and so to believe "the rest of" Thelema? Instead, our questions should look more like, I wonder what kind of art this person's life will become given even just a few of the life-giving, liberating principles of Thelemic philosophy?
You know?
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