|
|
Post by Victus on Mar 3, 2009 17:28:55 GMT -8
|
|
|
|
Post by yehezkel on Mar 4, 2009 16:10:04 GMT -8
To defend the freedom and LIVINGNESS of humanity at all costs. And to study, practice, be broken, made whole, and to seriously attempt to understand everyone as miraculously connected "in" "God" as one considers what this cost may entail, both to oneself and others. IMHO
But I tend to come from a Christian background, so that may flavor my perspective. All others are welcome.
|
|
|
|
Post by Victus on Mar 4, 2009 17:39:19 GMT -8
To defend the freedom and LIVINGNESS of humanity at all costs. And to study, practice, be broken, made whole, and to seriously attempt to understand everyone as miraculously connected "in" "God" as one considers what this cost may entail, both to oneself and others. IMHO But I tend to come from a Christian background, so that may flavor my perspective. All others are welcome. 93, In Christian terms, we are all One in the Body of God; the Soul and God are of One Substance, One Nature; Each Soul (or "Star" in Thelema) therefore shows-forth God in the world. In short, we must defend our freedom to be ourselves & do our wills; it doesn't matter if you couch it in Christian or Confucian terminology. -V. |
|
gucke
New Member
Posts: 1
|
Post by gucke on Mar 5, 2009 13:02:54 GMT -8
Shalom
i like the cause.
but the third chapter in The Book Of The Law scares me. why does the god say that he pecks at Christ's Eyes? and blinds Muhammed?
|
|
|
|
Post by Victus on Mar 5, 2009 15:02:50 GMT -8
Shalom i like the cause. but the third chapter in The Book Of The Law scares me. why does the god say that he pecks at Christ's Eyes? and blinds Muhammed? The simple answer is that the Point-of-View of Christianity and Islam is wrong. "Thus it is the eyes of 'Jesus' -- his point of view -- that must be destroyed; and this point of view is wrong because of his Magical Gesture of self-sacrifice." (A.C.) It is the superstition & dogma of past religions that are attacked & "cursed." "Mohammed's point of view is wrong too; but he needs no such sharp correction as 'Jesus.' It is his face -- his outward semblance -- that is to be covered with His wings. The tenets of Islam, correctly interpreted, are not far from our Way of Life and Light and Love and Liberty. This applies especially to the secret tenets. The external creed is mere nonsense suited to the intelligence of the peoples among whom it was promulgated; but even so, Islam is Magnificent in practice. Its code is that of a man of courage and honour and self-respect; contrasting admirably with the cringing cowardice of the damnation-dodging Christians with their unmanly and dishonest acceptance of vicarious sacrifice, and their currish conception of themselves as 'born in sin,' 'miserable sinners' with 'no health in us.'" (A.C.) "...he says distinctly that the religion of Thelema is to be contrary to all others. True, for Thelema is Magick, and Magick is Science, the antithesis of the religious hypothesis. [Also, see The Book of the Law, III:49-54.]" (Antecedents of Thelema) (P.S. Sorry I accidentally 'modified' your post instead of responding to it at first; nothing was changed, though) -V. |
|
|
|
Post by aaangelynn on Mar 5, 2009 15:38:43 GMT -8
It is supposed to scare you or at least shake you up. All that has been thought holy, all that is preconceived wisdom and sacred is false and can be eaten by time and death. Only that which remains beyond those things that can't rot away is truth. It is God not his creation, sages, or prophets that is holy. The body: even the body of Christ and Muhammed were not holy. The body dies God's or a Saviors living in one during an earthy incarnation do so as a temporary vessel. Defiling the bodies of the dead especially those of holy men seems the utmost sacrilege but really it is exalting the fact that the god form in them has surpassed the human condition.
|
|
|
|
Post by Victus on Mar 5, 2009 15:52:31 GMT -8
It is supposed to scare you or at least shake you up. All that has been thought holy, all that is preconceived wisdom and sacred is false and can be eaten by time and death. Only that which remains beyond those things that can't rot away is truth. It is God not his creation, sages, or prophets that is holy. The body: even the body of Christ and Muhammed were not holy. The body dies God's or a Saviors living in one during an earthy incarnation do so as a temporary vessel. Defiling the bodies of the dead especially those of holy men seems the utmost sacrilege but really it is exalting the fact that the god form in them has surpassed the human condition. "The many change and pass; the one remains." (Liber Porta Lucis) But the Thelemite rejoices even in the transience of all things for all Acts are Love, and the Result of Love is Joy. The body is indeed holy insofar as it is the Temple & Vessel of God. Thelemites do not despise the body but revel in its intricacy, subtlety, intimacy, complexity, and beauty -V. |
|
|
|
Post by aaangelynn on Mar 5, 2009 16:23:05 GMT -8
So true the body can be our most useful gift from. Again the between worlds...the body is not dismissed but revered, the limitations of the body must be surpassed to achieve gnosis. Both are true none are true. I let a recent debate over physical reanimation at the end of days cloud my thoughts on that post.
|
|
|
|
Post by B on Mar 8, 2009 7:56:05 GMT -8
93,
what disappoints me is theory vs. practice, the ideal vs. the reality, as a fundamentalist thelemite and member of the oto as well as someone who's actively serving in the middle east at this time, I'm surrounded where I am by a people and culture with enough conviction to actually wage litteral holy war in practice, and as much as I would relish an army of Ra-Hoor-Khuit what disturbs me is our thelemic community in the U.S. seems to be less one of warriors and more a group that hypothesizes theory's and boasts of their own intellect than one would ever see in an army of anything of any sort, I know I'm not alone as I've had this conversation before with others, hippy liberals don't tend to make good soldier types, unless you use words like army of Ra-Hoor-Khuit only in theory and philosophy, speaking hypothetically, because make no mistake there is a war going on at the moment, both at home and abroad, our freedoms and liberties and livelyhoods (words we speak so fondly of) are under litteral threat at this time, but I continue to see people who fancy themselves thelemites selling us all out jumping on the big bandwagon to slavery, very disturbing
93's
|
|
|
|
Post by Victus on Mar 8, 2009 9:38:50 GMT -8
93, what disappoints me is theory vs. practice, the ideal vs. the reality, as a fundamentalist thelemite and member of the oto as well as someone who's actively serving in the middle east at this time, I'm surrounded where I am by a people and culture with enough conviction to actually wage litteral holy war in practice, and as much as I would relish an army of Ra-Hoor-Khuit what disturbs me is our thelemic community in the U.S. seems to be less one of warriors and more a group that hypothesizes theory's and boasts of their own intellect than one would ever see in an army of anything of any sort, I know I'm not alone as I've had this conversation before with others, hippy liberals don't tend to make good soldier types, unless you use words like army of Ra-Hoor-Khuit only in theory and philosophy, speaking hypothetically, because make no mistake there is a war going on at the moment, both at home and abroad, our freedoms and liberties and livelyhoods (words we speak so fondly of) are under litteral threat at this time, but I continue to see people who fancy themselves thelemites selling us all out jumping on the big bandwagon to slavery, very disturbing 93's 93, Although Im not sure what your point was B., you have some good pints. Anyone who sells us out to jump on 'the big bandwagon to slavery' is obviously an enemy. There are physical and intellectual wars going on - both need to be fought and both type of warriors need to be respected. This isnt about liberalism or conservatism, its simply about personal and social liberty. There are many Thelemites who simply sit around hypothesizing but "they are not of us." I certainly dont want anything to do with them; hence the Epistles, hence the injunctions to go out and fight for liberty, etc. We need soldiers to fight physical wars, and we need interested & driven individuals to fight intellectual/information wars. The fact that our liberties are 'under literal threat' is a large part of the reason this 'Army' exists: to bring everyone to this awareness and perhaps give a solution or two. -V. |
|
|
|
Post by aaangelynn on Mar 8, 2009 11:49:27 GMT -8
If every chivalric ordered "knight" in some of the various Themelic org. decided to bear witness and arm themselves at least with information, political activity, and had a firm public presence that made The Book the Law the manual for free society there would be many steps taken to ensue the continuation of the ideals and action of the Law. I know from volunteer experience that the most congressmen and representatives see of pseudo OTO members is letters from inmates. That is not the face for change. Since the knights won't make a stand it is up to the few with a calling of zeal (knights or not) to not be ignored.
|
|
|
|
Post by B on Mar 8, 2009 14:41:29 GMT -8
93
an excellent point about the only letters congressmen see from thelemites coming from inmates, which leads to the question where are the rest of those we call brothers and sisters and what are they doing?
I do believe we are at a crucial moment in our society at this time, we have extremists abroad who would like to kill or convert those not like themselves who do not kneel 5 times a day toward mecca who are taking litteral action to accomplish their goals with violent methods, and we have big government ramming us toward tyranny with their policies at home, and though one could argue conservatism vs. liberalism there are enemies on both sides of the aisle, both sides like to talk about freedom but the freedom they speak of only applies to those who agree with them in full and will submit to their will, we are seeing a radical expansion in the size and power of government over the people on an unprecidented scale, big government is looking for subjects it seems, and there seems to be far too many who call themselves thelemites who seem all too thrilled about it (west coast to be specific),
yes action does need to be taken, be it political activism or other, I don't believe one even needs to identify themselves as representing thelema in this endevor, "let my servants be few and secret", theres no need for those inclined toward secret societies to identify themselves, it should be simply a matter of fundamental principle in standing up for our individual freedoms to live by our own law, I don't want the conservatives telling me I need to be a christian or invading my privacy in the name of everyones security or passing laws that they deem morally correct, any more than I want the liberals taking my guns or my money for their own spending sprees to give to those who've worked for nothing, I don't want the conservatives telling me what I can or can not put in my own body any more than I want the liberals telling me where I can or can not recieve health care or send my children to school, the list goes on and on, on both sides,
I feel like alot of people are apathetically asleep at the wheel right now while the thing we call liberty is being voted away on our behalf for our own good they say, in the name of the herd of course, one can not only blame this administration but also the last, they've both done their part, but the lion share of the blame goes to congress, that one consistent group of people who without term limmits appears to have eternal reign to ruin us all, so naturally talk of the army of Ra-Hoor-Khuit catches my attention when many of those I see who call themselves thelemites seem gleeful about the current state of affairs, maybe my vision is skewed in who I see due to my primarily west coast exposure to our lodges and organizations and the people who inhabbit them, it bothers me though when our very fundamental principles are so openly ignored and disregarded as I see people so eager to join the herd of the mob like lemmings marching off a cliff,
and yes while we need not only those of intellect as well as physical soldiers, even more so we need action above talk of action, for myself its all too easy to just relocate to a more suitable location when rome burns as I've already been and am currently residing abroad for several years already, but its a shame for me to watch the international news everyday and see the country most conducive to a thelemic society washed away by politicians for their own personal gain, too many people out there who fancy themselves thelemites seem to believe that that distinction only applies to playing dress up a few times a month for ceremony or ritual and they do nothing to extend our principles beyond into real world daily life and society other than maybe wearing un-usual jewelry for its public shock value as a conversation piece, I dread to see the state of affairs in the next few years to come as I think significant changes are being made now that will have lasting reprecussions for years to come,
I would love to see more thelemites more active in whats litterally going on in our world fighting for our very fundamental beliefs rather than simply and only concerning themselves with the affairs of lodge, ceremony, study and talk, more people need to extend our principles beyond fashion statements and apply them to whats actually going on around them, but I guess thats just my opinion on the matter
93's
|
|
|
|
Post by Victus on Mar 8, 2009 16:51:33 GMT -8
If every chivalric ordered "knight" in some of the various Themelic org. decided to bear witness and arm themselves at least with information, political activity, and had a firm public presence that made The Book the Law the manual for free society there would be many steps taken to ensue the continuation of the ideals and action of the Law. I know from volunteer experience that the most congressmen and representatives see of pseudo OTO members is letters from inmates. That is not the face for change. Since the knights won't make a stand it is up to the few with a calling of zeal (knights or not) to not be ignored. 93, Good point. We should make a lists of various issues & the various Congressmen to write to... Then everyone could write a letter for whatever issue. Any suggestions on specific issues to be concerned about? B: Also many good points. What are some specific issues or actions you wish would be taken? -V. |
|
|
|
Post by aangelynn on Mar 8, 2009 20:36:56 GMT -8
Since no one seems ready to wake up and throw out the patriot act as the most offensive government decision since prohibition, Change starts at home. I just started watching and closely following state politics before the last election. If a policy or agenda feels wrong to sit back and swallow say so. Say so a lot. It takes years to get an issue on the ballot and many can be killed before they ever get to the ballot box. In Ohio and Michigan all the federal and state reps have web sites. I know at least aides read them because I have gotten responses by email more than once. Has it made a difference? Who knows but it costs nothing to try it but a few minutes of time (one less myspace survey). Find out what bills are coming up in the state for the next month or so and read at least the summary.
All the tools that got us to this page can take us to those. If you belong to a lodge know their history it can help you in a fight for freedom. In Crowley's day he fought not just the press but laws to set up lodges in the US. many of those can be used as lesson on how to proceed to insure that freedom. You will be surprised how much you can change things on a local level by attending council meeting dressed like a soccer mom. Wear Baphomet boxers if you need "support " . None of us became magicians because we like the world we live in, knowing there is more gives us an obligation to work toward it herding those who can't figure that out.
|
|
|
|
Post by Victus on Mar 8, 2009 22:12:55 GMT -8
Since no one seems ready to wake up and throw out the patriot act as the most offensive government decision since prohibition, Change starts at home. Indeed! "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." We can certainly focus on the egregious violations of civil liberties in the Patriot Act but it would be best to focus on specific and less global problems, i.e. certain applications of the Patriot Act (warrantless wiretapping, etc.) It makes a difference, however small. Im sure congresspeople would love never getting calls & letters from their constituents becase then they wouldnt feel pressured to tailor their policies to their constituency... and thats exactly why we need to write in to our political authorities: To make our voice heard. Hopefully our voice can grow in power & number in time... Yes! Even socccer moms are part of this Army in a very real sense: THE LAW IS FOR ALL and all people of all walks of life must fight for their freedoms. The Army of Ra-Hoor-Khuit can be seen as an act of "causing Change in conformity with Will." That Will will be determined by the desires of the members of the Army to see change in specific ways: we need people to express their opinions, doubts, angers, etc. about issues so we can follow up on them and pursue them. What are the issues in your local area and what is your local congressman's contact information? Let's start by mobilizing whatever small amount of 'troops' we have to fight for whatever victory, however 'small' at first. -V. |
|
